Wonder related questions

I personally think Storm is useless unless you're evil
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The storm miracle is useful for putting out lots of fires quickly. It also gains a lot of belief. I like to give this to my evil creatures sometimes, as a way to make a grand entrance(it can be a nice alternative to Flying Creatures, with the bonus of putting out the fires...)
Stronger versions of the spell aren't so useful, though, I think. Random lightning strikes or tornadoes may look cool, but it's a gamble...

Uh, you sure about that?
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My game says "JAPANESE POWA" when I use offensive miracles. Another theory I put forth is that the wonders work different in different versions of the game. Maybe this is why?

The Storm Miracle, hmm...why did Lion Head have to make villagers scared of a little drizzle, I mean, when it rains/drizzles here, I go in and grab an umbrella, go back out or I just stay in.
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I assume they are afraid of the thunder and lightning, not the falling water. :suspect
 
Oh I was talking about level one of the storm miracle.  :laugh2
Yes, if it weren't for the storm miracle one of my Celtic villages in creature isle would have burned down (the water miracle increase wasn't enough).
If your wondering how it caught on fire it was because I was doing Pashars trial and misfired an explosive barrel :bomb and it hit the forest and before I knew it the village center, a house and the grave yard were on fire! 
 
Though the basic miracle has none of that. :D I guess perhaps Lionhead just didn't think it was as high a priority as other things, and dropped it.

I suppose it is possible that it works differently in different versions, though I can't imagine why. The benefits attributed to the wonders in the manual and signposts would make the most sense historically and religiously, so I don't see why they'd make it LESS like it in later versions (my copy was bought at the beginning of 2002, so if not the earliest than a very early release, certainly not any special or limited-edition release).

Anyway, I'm going to have to go back and play the game when I get home just to make sure I'm not talking out of my arse now. Thanks a lot. :laugh2


EDIT: AppleApe sniped me on first comment. The first level DOES make thunder sounds, though, if you get under it... Maybe it's anticipatory. Has anyone else noticed how sublime the weather in Eden is when a god hasn't interfered? Maybe they really ARE scared of a little rain. :upside
 
It does make thunder sounds!?!  :shocked
I'll have to cast one next time I play.
My copy is the platinum pack.  It contains both Black & White and Creature Isle except when you create 
a new game account in CI you get the Ape, you don't go to any creature select, you just get the ape.  :(
Not that I don't like the Ape, but over and over again it gets kinda boring...
Is there some kind of code line to change - to change my creature?   
 
Er... I think so.

I seem to recall switching the files in the actual game directory folder to change the creature when I didn't mind USIN HAX. You'll have to ask someone else how, I don't remember.
 
There are a couple of programs in the download section that allow you to change your creature. I use a program called "Creature Changer" which I think is by "Cache"

I don't remember how to check which version of the game I have. And I thought I bought the game about when it came out, but I might remember wrong. If anyone knows how to check, let me know.
 
On my disc it shows which version it is.  It's also on the package box and on the disc case.
Do you have Creature Isle and Black & white?
If have both, then you may have the platinum pack like me or you may have the deluxe pack.
If you just have Black & White then you have Black & White.  If you only have Creature Isle then you just have Creature Isle.
Hope this helps you find out!  :) 
 
I've just got B&W, but I don't know where the box is and I'm not at the house where it is right now, anyway, so I can't check a number. But the edition or version number is not just which pack it was released in. When a game is released with errors, three things are done, varying mostly based upon how severe or obvious the errors are; The games might be refunded, recalled and rereleased, there might just be a new edition released, and the game might be patched. Mine was released between patches 1.1 and 1.2, I now remember, because 1.1 was on the disc, and I actually got 1.2 off of a PC Gamer magazine bonus and demo disc, not Kays'sPlace (old demo disc, as you can imagine. I have one from '97 with all three original Zork games on it, which is frikkin awesome). :D
 
You play/have ZORK?!?  ???
I have heard of it.
Never played, but heard of it.
Isn't it a text game and things you do are like - there's a snake and you have to
guess what your supposed to do about it? 
I don't understand these "patches".  My copy is about a half or more year old and works great,
so maybe you could tell me why I would want/need/ to get a patch?
I was wondering if I need some special program to open a .exe?  :help
 
AppleApe...
Yours is the MAC version ?
Or are you using the PC version with an emulator?
The reason I ask is because the games are different.....
In CI PC you get the choice of selecting one of your old creatures or starting a new one.
In both versions you only have to keep the start creature until you have a creature in the dojo then you can swap at any time. With any that are there.

.......
On the PC properly installed and working correctly, the loading screen  has the game version info in the bottom RH corner.
V1.00 Basic bugged game as released
V1.10 Patched game fine for single player only.
V1.20 Patched as above and MP fixes the only patch 99.9% of us need.
V1.23 CI expansion pack.
V 1.30 VR Glove owners only patch, breaks the game  without the glove.
.........
On the Mac there is a  single patch    1.1.9 from memory.
 
Yes, it is a mac version with the B&W and CI.
When I first went to the creature isle I got my angelic skinny Ape.  Next I brought a Cow and made him a Wolf.  Then I wondered what would happen if I started a new game account, in CI not B&W.
I got a  plump Ape and on the side of good.
 
I don't have creature isle and I don't have the disc on me. I thought maybe there was a way to just check on the computer.
 
AppleApe said:
You play/have ZORK?!?  ???
I have heard of it.
Never played, but heard of it.
Isn't it a text game and things you do are like - there's a snake and you have to
guess what your supposed to do about it? 
Click to expand...
Half-right. It's a text-based game, but it is basically like a cross between those choose-your-own-adventure games and Dungeons and Dragons, leaning more on the D & D side. You play as a nameless "adventurer" who starts out with no background history of any kind or any memory of the past ("who am i" returns "You don't see a me around here.") in the middle of a field between a forest and a house, and you have to find your way into a fallen empire known as Zork, which is also the name of the narrator, and which is conspicuously subterranean.

Good times.
 
I loooved Zork when I was growing up. The first few were text-based but they made some graphic-based ones too (I'm sure that's not the right word, but I don't know what to call them). Those were amazingly funny games.
 
Ah, yes, Zork 4: The Grand Inquisitor. Good times. And there was a graphical sequel, as well, but I never played it.

Plus Zork Zero, Zork the Undiscovered Underground, and several other Zork games, as well as the Enchanter series, which included references to Zork and some overlap with the Zork setting. The grue is still my favourite thing from Zork.
 
AppleApe.... then most if not all of the comments here relate to the  PC game or are just unhelpful  spam.
 
We really should get some legit wonder info out here. It would be good to list what actually makes the miracle better. I know for a fact that you can get lightning powerful enough to destroy ROCKS and custom landscape rocks(pillars?) in the game, with one shot("INDIAN POWER ┌( ಠ_ಠ)┘").

Also I actually played an online match the other day, built a large Norse wonder (yeah, just one, it was big though). In the other village by the coast, I ended up w/ ~640k food in the store, took some to my other village, came back for more and there was 750k food in the store, the town was only ~40 people. My wood miracles were giving me 44k wood per cast. Food miracle wasn't on the map but the creature's food miracle was more powerful than normal, I'm guessing low at 2-3k since I wasn't exactly watching.

I've noticed that WATER miracles get more powerful too, but only been able to see results from one aspect of it's abilities. Simply, the water spells power to cool down the temperature of objects increases many times over and it becomes quite easy to put out huge rock pile fires with 4-6 casts of water, w/ a big Norse wonder. The practical benefit here is that you can use one miracle to quickly put out over 5 burning buildings if you. Also burning rocks take quite a bit of cooling if they are large enough, which become no problem after said large wonder.

Have not tested with miracle water increase yet however.

I'm going to try and experiment in my games to see what things do, right now I'm running patch 1.3 and I will later get to CI things too so maybe I will compose a list. I don't think I'll put much time into specific # values for things though.

Of course.. someone could mod a map and test these things but I feel like blowing a few hours playing instead of coding script.

Note that patches probably make a big difference because I have NOT ever noticed fish farm yield playing black and white 1, patch 1.2 or 1.3. I only got it in a Creature Isle match and haven't really messed with the CI single player yet.

Edit: I've also played some w/ the Celtic miracle and observed it's power through actually a custom creature on a downloaded map.

My experience with it: I built it on land 3, so I had the storm and forest miracles available to me, which ARE affected by it, no increase/extreme storm and I didn't test every miracle in the game since the map doesn't have it.

On a map I was set against an opposing god with a massive Celtic miracle. Soon after I started the map his creature came to a village of mine and cast what either increase or extreme storm, I couldn't tell. The lightning struck at an obscene rate and the storm lasted out for a big longer than expected(~x2?).
 
I will do a formal test of the wonders and try to estimate and find out some equations now, since I finished my other maths/video game project (making a comprehensive guide to the Pokeathlon in SoulSilver, the very first English one that is actually comprehensive and includes formulas and mechanics(!), now I just need to transform my data into something readable by humans). Do note that, while I think the wonders DO stack, if you have a fully charged artifact it's a moot point; Because the size of the wonder as compared to the strength of it seems to be logarithmic, having five wonders of varying smaller degrees only adds half the strength of the single, largest, last wonder; There seems also to be a cap on both wonder size and the total combined strength of the bonuses. Wood seems to have a cap of 166000 or so, and food of 70000 or so (NOT increase) with Norse wonders, and a single fully-charged artifact makes a full-sized wonder regardless of village belief, a full-sized wonder requiring 60000 wood (plus scaffold building cost of 17500), so the main use of smaller Norse wonders is to make it easier to build bigger Norse wonders.

Having ANY wonder at full size is kind of similar to having mastery in any of most of the skills in Oblivion; It basically allows you to adopt a certain playing style and quickly win the game. Indian obviously support micromanagement and relying on the villagers; Moving several times as fast without tiring more quickly means they can pretty quickly fill the store from a few fish-farms. And Lightning is useful against an enemy.

Without a wonder, it is possible to destroy things with lightning, but it happens faster with an Indian wonder.

I am going to make a custom map entirely focused on the testing of wonders to figure out the details and try to get objective, numeric values where possible.
 
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