Self-Sufficient and Occupied Creature?

thimbletwix

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Joined
Jan 27, 2010
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27
I'm having trouble in Land One teaching my ape, Firefly, to act self-sufficiently and to keep himself busy. While I do want to pay him attention, I don't want to need to be by his side constantly, telling him to eat, sleep, ect. He also rarely goes anywhere of his own accord. If I direct him to the beach when his hungry in hopes of him feeding himself, despite knowing how to fish he'll just stand in the exact same spot for hours on end. How can I teach him to fulfill his own desires, and keep busy when I'm not around?

Thanks for any help!  :blush
 
The creature begins as a blank canvas, and he will only do what he is taught. At the start of your creature's life, you will need to be by his side teaching every ittle thing and, with the correct reward/punishment, he will eventually learn to do those things of his own accord. It often takes time for your creature to learn how to do these things self-reliantly, but his personality is based implicitly on what you have taught him. For example, when you want your creature to eat fish when he is hungry, wait until his hunger level is high and leave him (with the leash of learning) by the waterside. When he eats the fish, reward accordingly and he will eat fish in the future. I know this sounds basic, but everything your creature does is based on what you have taught him.
 
This is  not basic at all.
Part of the EG routine is to teach your  creature to  fish.
I find it better to (rope) leash your creature to  a villager that is going fishing,  then he learns how to feed himself within a minute or 2.
Yes he has to be  hungry but even 10% will be enough.
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The  best creatures will always be the ones you  slap the  least.
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Reward the actions you wan't and ignore those you don't when you can. This works better than you would think.
 
Is it really that quick? I've leashed him to fishermen over and over, and he knows how to fish, but despite being hungry he just won't feed himself at all. The problem with rewarding him when he does the right thing is he won't do the right thing - he only eats when prompted, no matter how high his hunger gets. Is this something to do with being on the first land, perhaps? I don't get any of the messages about what he's thinking in this land, and he seems to act a bit more autonomously in Skirmish. (He still won't feed himself, though!)
 
There is obviously something  different /wrong with your training  method as the normal problem is creatures that are too fat.
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If you have the time  just bear with me for a while.
Start a new profile and install my Extreme Growth map.... Follow the instructions and see how this creature develops.
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It is not the easiest growth map but  the creatures come out as better "Blanks" ready for further training or  can look after themselves.
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This map has been used by over 1 million users over the years and less than 500 queries/complaints across all B&W boards.
BTW....My English  has improved some since I wrote the "Readme.txt"
 
I gave this a shot, but unfortunately, it didn't work. I did as the readme instructed and had my new creature learn how to fish and farm, then went straight to the growth map and directed him to his pen, putting the grain from the giant fish in the back of the pen. I then watched to see his actions. For ten minutes he did absoloutely nothing - he actually stood exactly where I'd clicked in the pen and stared off in the same direction, not moving the entire time until his hunger reached 50%. He never seems to act independently - at best, he copies my actions.
 
I also just tried repeating the process, leaving him for 40 minutes, but he let himself starve until collapsing repeatedly and again simply would not move, at all.
 
That is really wierd.
One of the main ideas behind the map is to  get a  self feeding self growing creature.
Originally for MP but it works well for  single player too.
As you can see from the few comments that are posted with the map file , out of 15,000+ downloads nobody has hd this problem and I can't remember it mentioned on any of the  other sites.
Back when the map was new (before Kayssplace existed) it was on  6 English speaking sites and  3 other language.
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Anyway back to your problem.
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From your posts....and  a bit of guess work. Your  creature  is an ape. These can be  difficult to train, so why not try it  again with the Tiger (well I would suggest that). Much easier to train and get right.
Just try it  on  another new profile, it may well be  a combination of factors just don't mix well at the moment for  success.
 
Yes, I've been looking around and I'm starting to see some people have trouble with the ape! I'll try the tiger. Thanks very much for your help.  :blush
 
Tiger  always worked out  well for me. A slow learner  so you can make  a mistake or 2  without permanently damaging his mind.
 
Hmm - the tiger certainly does seem easier, but he's still dependant. He'll eat more of something after getting told it's good to, but afterwards, he won't eat again. Then again, I' haven't often let his hunger climb over 50% for fear of impairing his growth. How long should I wait? Should I just go about doing something else, waiting for him to feed himself at the risk of him starving and collapsing?
 
Argh, this is getting frustrating. No matter what I do, I seem to be stuck with an entirely dependant creature who will only act independently to play and impress. What I'm attempting to get is a self-sufficient creature who will generally be kind and generous to my village, and impress only when told. I've tried all three of the beginning creatures, but none seem to get the message. I've read guides and followed them, but he just won't act without guidance, and will sit for hours on end staring in the same direction if I let him. It's like in The Sims, if you turn off free will!

Should I give up? Should I attempt to replace my creature's mind with a self-sufficient one, if I can? What am I doing wrong?  :(
 
Gremuxula.. Just because nobody reports an error... does not mean nobody has an error.

Not many people complain.

I myself also tried your map.. My creature became afraid of me. - Because I slapped it when it wanted to play. Just 10% (one slap) eventualy.. it did not want to sleep.. so I slapped it when it just 'sat down' - Then it did not want to sleep for a long time, so I slapped him for waking up directly, even when still tired..

My creature eventualy had mental damage, because it was to afraid of me to train. - The map worked though.. it grew to 1/3 size, and I didn't even use the map that long.

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To get a self sufficiant creature... Don't give him any attention.. Just.. ignore the little beast. - Creatures by nature are good willed, they won't turn 100% good on their own. But if you teach them positive miracles, they will become good.

To get a creature that only impresses when -you- want it.. slap him when he does it on his own. And reward him when he is leashed. Remember! You will need to do this twice, for villagers of neutral, and villagers of other gods!

To get a creature that will feed itself, poo on it's own, and not overeat, NEVER reward or punish any of these actions. Unless they are really something he SHOULD NOT do, like, for a good creature, eat people. !! CAUTION !! if a person is the first thing he eats, DO NOT PUNISH. He will not see eating people is wrong, but eating is wrong, and then you end up having to train him after all. - Eating Fish is fine. So only let him see Fisherman fish, and then, that's that. Once your creature knows how to fish, never reward or punish.

Added to that, never Reward or Punish your creature to much for one thing. Always try to use equal reward or punishment, I suggest using 20% - This is one hard slap, or two soft slaps, and three 'cuddles'. Use this for 'everything'. This way, you will 'force' your creature to think. Instead on basing what YOU learned it. It will look for how YOU reacted to what it did, and how it did it. - This way, he will try to please you more.

Only reward 30% or more, when your creature does an action EXACTLY the way you want it. (Use for 'trained' skills)
Such as, picking up a tree, planting it in an firtile area, then watering it. And leaving it be.
Or, picking up one of your own villagers, taking them to an other town, and making breeders of them there, causing them to become Misionaire.

So, reward higher for SUCCESFULL multi-actions! :D


To get a creature that thinks on his own, DO NOT USE LEASHES OFTEN! - only use the leash, when you really NEED your creature to do something for you, you can't do yourself. Leashes are like the 'mode' buttons in BW2 - No leash, is 'free will mode'.


I guess this about covers what you wanted to know for now. Good luck! :)
 
Thanks so much for the awesome, detailed advice, Sylcai.  :) I won't be able to put it to use for a while, though. *headdesks* I was using a cracked version of the game for the Mac, since I've been entirely unable to find a copy of the Platinum Pack, but I accidentally deleted the torrent, along with the files that accompanied it. But it is such a fantastic game, so I'm willing to save up and try to order it online.

I've never ordered online before, but for Black and White, I'm sure it's worth it. I just need to get a bit of money first.  :laugh2

Thanks so much for the help, all. Hopefully once I get a copy of the game I'll be able to put all these tips and tricks to good use again and figure it out.  :blush
 
I mostly agree with your comments Sylcai.
The map is not 100% it never was meant to be a free ride.
If you do it right you get a fully grown  creature and  some  small sense of achievement.
Perhaps where it went wrong for you is the fact that felt that you needed to slap your creature when the  mere absence of praise  is  enough.
My experience in both the real world and game distraction  and praise  works better  faster than slapping ever would. As you  say punishment brings on  resentment and  fear.
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The Eg map was/is a quick way to  grow  a full sized creature mainly for  MP use staying within the rules. It exploits  just about every trick in the book but it was/is a way to get a  full grown creature  without using  an editor.
There are/were easier maps around but at the  time mine  just became the most popular, maybe because it  was not the easiest and "screened out" a lot of also rans.
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You really need to run at least 2-3 creatures through the map just to get to know how it works. :D
 
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