[B&W1] Creatures auto-healing during creature fight

[U-77]

Greetings everyone.

Has any of you experience with (B&W1) creatures healing themselves during a fight?

By "healing" I mean that the creature's health bar refills partially, all of a sudden.
Without any special visual clue, without the creature performing a miracle, without outside intervention of a deity.

I'm trying to remember how I did train one of my creatures who was actually able to heal herself like that.
Boy, I forgot so much...


Thanks in advance.

Ciao ciao : )

 

[Kays]

Unless the other creature healed him? ???

I've sort of been successful in teaching my creature to heal himself during a fight. But he seldom does it and when he does, I thought that he had to make the gesture. But it has been a while also.

 

[SkelApe]

The punch/kick animation overrides the heal animation, so it might not look as if he did a heal miracle at all. He can do it voluntarily or as a result of a gesture.

 

[U-77]

The punch/kick animation overrides the heal animation, so it might not look as if he did a heal miracle at all. He can do it voluntarily or as a result of a gesture.

Please forgive me, I must contraddict you.
I witnessed my Tiger auto-heal 2 times in a row when in defense, with her arms firmly put to cover her face.
I also saw her auto-heal when standing upright during the brief idle times when the two creatures look at each other as if they're "studying" the opponent.
I also saw her auto-heal when "roaring" in the face of the opponent.

Instead I never saw my Tiger auto-heal while performing an attack, or suffering an attack.
As well, she never auto-healed when she moved around inside the arena.

Peace  :angel

Ciao ciao : )

 

[U-77]

(sorry for double-posting. This is quite long and I want to keep it separate from the previous)

I believe you, Kays.
The problem is indeed that they rarely do auto-heal.
So how can one tell for sure when they have learned, and what was the teaching who did it?

I have some ideas I'll list below.
If you compare my creature with yours, it is possible to narrow the list down to a subset of more likely things.

We must start from some assumption. Bear with me.
The one thing I'm sure of, is that the auto-heal is not a totally random thing.
Otherwise any creature -any age, any training- should auto-heal sooner or later.
And we would all know the secret (so to speak) by now, as this kind of knowledge spreads the moment it's discovered.
But it did never spread.
So the teaching has something to do with what _most_ people have _not_ done with their creatures.
Makes sense to you?

Of all the "particular" things, I know of some that can be excluded for sure, for I tried 'em extensively and didn't produce results.

Let's begin.

Knowing Heal miracles
Common sense made so that every player taught their creatures the 2 healing miracles.
So that's not part of the teaching. Or at least it _alone_ isn't enough.
Since all creatures would know these miracls anyway, we can safely count them out.

Intelligence
That's another thing who doesn't count. My one and only creature who ever auto-healed is a Tiger, the 2nd dumbest creature of all (the 1st one being the Rhino).
If intelligence was a factor, then Apes and Lions would have become quite famous as first rate auto-healers.
That's not the case. So intelligence is not a requirement.

Creature diet
If we assume the teaching has to be a particular thing most people wouldn't do, then I say the creature diet _may_ have a part in it.
If it's so, then eating animals or villagers is not the right diet, for my Tiger did end up eating only from Fish Farms.
I was never able to "correct" this behavior, and you can bet I tried all you can name.
So _if_ diet is part of the puzzle, then eating lot of Fish is one of the pieces.

Creature age
I discovered my Tiger could auto-heal when she was past 108 years old. I'm sure of it.
Again, not many creatures were "kept" by their owners for that much time.
Most people get bored soon. Others just don't develop a strong attachment to creatures and cast them away in favor of new ones.
So a high age _may_ be part of the puzzle. How much is "high", though, I don't know.
But if that's true, I'm sure that below 70 years isn't high enough, for I desperately tried to teach the auto-heal to a young creature until she became 70. She never learned.

Finishing the game
Well, my Tiger is the only one with which I played though Single Player and beaten the game, I admit.
This also means she's my only creature who fought the mirror match VS Nemesis' pet.
It also implies she's the only creature of mine who ever assembled the parts of the Creed.
So this too is a possible piece of the puzzle.

Healing during a controlled fight
I did that a lot! Not because I thought someday my Tiger could auto-heal.
This Tiger has fought like ~600 battles. The first 500 of which were controlled by me.
Only later I discovered she'd fight on her own. So her last 100 battles were uncontrolled.
That's when I first noticed the auto-heal.
Perhaps healing in combat is part of the puzzle. How many healings are necessary, though, I don't know.

Stroking the creature if she wins a fight with minimal health loss
I did that too, in hope it would encourage her to refine her fighting skills.
Apparently it only served to make her heal more _after_ the fight.
If this is part of the puzzle, I can't see why. I would count this out.

Number of battles fought and won
Perhaps. Not many people kept their creatures long enough to accumulate several hundreds battles fought & won under their belt. So that's another candidate.

Creature thinks her deity paid her very little attention
Now this is interesting.
Young creatures are closely watched because of their training still in progress.
Only old creatures, whose training is finished, tend to be ignored by their deity progressively more and more.
So my bet is that the creature -feeling "ignored"- begins relying less and less on her deity's possibility to aid her during a fight. And she may start auto-healing once she's fairly sure she won't get any outside help.
Actually I deem this a very possible candidate.
I noticed my Tiger would definitely auto-heal more frequently when she was used as Neutral creature in Skirmish mode.
Neutral creatures are on their own all the time, in fact.
To further support this theory, I add that I used to clone the Mind of my Tiger, so that I could pit her against herself in Skirmish mode. Not surprisingly, the cloned Mind (the Neutral creature) would auto-heal much more often than her twin, my pet.

Having other creatures (not involved in the fight) heal yours while she is fighting
I triggered that too (in Skirmish maps), several times.
I tried it after I discovered creatures could auto-heal.
It never produced results. So I'd rule this out.

Have your creature fight another creature whom you know can auto-heal;
Maybe with the Leash of Learning connecting the two as well
Of course, I tried this as well. I "employed" my auto-healing Tiger as opponent and teacher for a much younger Tiger.
The former would auto-heal even 3 times in a row, but the latter wouldn't learn, nor show any signs of learning.
So we may count that out as well.

Creature Alignment
Definitely not. My Tiger auto-healed both in Neutral and Angelic clothes.

Creature aggressivness/defensiveness
I have a feeling this is part of the solution.
I refer to the 2 dummies in the Creature cave.
My Tiger would stay in defensive mode most of the time during a fight.
She would break her defense and string a couple hits at the opponent. Then seal in defense again.
Perhaps very defensive creatures develop the auto-heal as a form of extra defense?

Creature may auto-heal if you possess the Healing miracle at a Worship Site of yours
Absolutely irrelevant. My Tiger was used in Skirmish maps as a Freely Roaming Neutral Creature.
She would auto-heal all the same. So what miracles are at the deity's disposal is of no matter.

The auto-heal mechanism awakes if the creature is controlled by the computer (Neutral creatures)
Again no. My Tiger first auto-healed when she was _my_ pet.
I discovered much later that I could use her as a Mind to embody a Neutral creature in Skirmish mode.
So having her controlled by the CPU is not required. I'm sure.


That's all I can think of, I believe.

So, summing up...

The surely not required things are:
- Having other creatures (not involved in the fight) heal yours while she is fighting.
- Have your creature fight another creature whom you know can auto-heal;
  Maybe with the Leash of Learning connecting the two as well.
- Creature Alignment.
- Creature may auto-heal if you possess the Heal miracle at a Worship Site of yours.
- The auto-heal mechanism awakes if the creature is controlled by the computer.

The probably not required things are:
- Knowing Heal miracles.
- Intelligence.
- Stroking the creature if she wins a fight with minimal health loss.

The perhaps required things are:
- Creature diet.
- Finishing the game.
- Healing during a controlled fight.
- Number of battles fought and won.

The more likely required things are:
- Creature age.
- Creature thinks her deity paid her very little attention.
- Creature aggressivness/defensiveness.


Now if you think about what I've done, and compare it what you've done with your creature, we can further refine this list.
For example, the Creature Diet is included only because my Tiger had a very particular diet.
But if your auto-healing creature didn't just focus on Fish Farms, we may rule the diet out entirely.

This is not open to Kays alone.
Anyone is welcome to contribute with their thoughts.

By the way.
If anyone wants to see a creature who can auto-heal, one is right here at Kayssplace.
It's been here for years, actually. Rutger is the name, the very same Tiger I kept talking about in this post.
Have Rutger fight many many times. Sooner or later you will see he auto-heals.
Of course the problem is that it's unpredictable when he will do it.
So you must have patience and observe his health bar.


Ciao ciao : )

 

[SkelApe]

This appears to be a small answer in comparison but i witnessed practically every creature i have owned autohealing. I also think that any animation over-rides the healing one, as i can see the healing "cloud" when infact no such action had apparently been performed. Who knows, it could be a glitch/random occurance!

Oh and the leopard is the dumbest creature, followed by the rhino.

 

[Sweet Tooth]

Rhino, Tiger and Leopard all share the same intelligence.

 

[U-77]

This appears to be a small answer in comparison but i witnessed practically every creature i have owned autohealing. I also think that any animation over-rides the healing one, as i can see the healing "cloud" when infact no such action had apparently been performed. Who knows, it could be a glitch/random occurance!

Oh and the leopard is the dumbest creature, followed by the rhino.

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure we are talking of the same thing.
You mean [nearly] all your creatures would refill their health bar during a fight with another creature, and without any outside intervention (not even yours)?

If yes, that's great!
Do you remember the training you followed?
And what creatures were they?

Thanks a lot.



In regard to creature's stats, I have a detailed list copied from a website back when B&W1 was still young.
Here:

S = Strength (that is, the starting strength)
V= Top run speed
R = Reaction speed (reaction to what's happening around. Call this the "speed of their brain")
I = Intelligence
M = Game minutes spent sleeping inside Creature Pen to reach full size.

Cow
S: 3 -- V: 8 -- R: 4 -- I: 5.5 -- M: 1500

Ape
S: 3 -- V: 8 -- R: 5.5 -- I: 8 -- M: 1200

Tiger
S: 6.3 -- V: 9.6 -- R: 6.2 -- I: 1.5 -- M: 1400

Leopard
S: 5.5 -- V: 10 -- R: 9 -- I: 2.3 -- M: 1450

Wolf
S: 5 -- V: 10 -- R: 8 -- I: 4.6 -- M: 1300

Lion
S: 6.5 -- V: 9 -- R: 6 -- I: 7.2 -- M: 1350

Horse
S: 4 -- V: 10 -- R: 6.2 -- I: 6.5 -- M: 1300

Turtle
S: 2 -- V: 8 -- R: 2.3 -- I: 7 -- M: 2000

Zebra
S: 4 -- V: 10 -- R: 6.5 -- I: 6.5 -- M: 1300

Brown Bear
S: 5 -- V: 9 -- R: 5.5 -- I: 3.5 -- M: 1600

Polar Bear
S: 5.6 -- V: 9 -- R: 5.4 -- I: 3.4 -- M: 1650

Sheep
S: 2.6 -- V: 8 -- R: 5.4 -- I: 7 -- M: 1375

Chimp
S: 2.3 -- V: 9 -- R: 5.4 -- I: 7.4 -- M: 1190

Ogre
S: 5.5 -- V: 9 -- R: 5.4 -- I: 3.5 -- M: 1400

Mandrill
S: 5 -- V: 9 -- R: 5.4 -- I: 4 -- M: 1250

Rhino
S: 6 -- V: 9 -- R: 5.4 -- I: 2 -- M: 1900

Gorilla
S: 6 -- V: 8 -- R: 5.4 -- I: 3.6 -- M: 1300

No Creature Isle creature's stats, sorry.
And it looks like we are all wrong
Tiger is the dumbest. Rhino is smarter than Tiger. Leopard is smarter than Rhino.

Ciao ciao : )

 

[SkelApe]

Yes, i believe that unprovoked auto-healing is a totally random ocurrance, given that the creature knows how to cast it. I still support my animation over-ride theory, because it is usually only battle-worn creatures that know to use it with no gesture intervention. Non experienced creatures still "auto-heal", but only with the assistance of gestures.
Also, if you swap a creature via the creature changer it only maintains 100% knowledge if the creature it is changing to has equal or less intelligence and as of yet the only creature i can see that is less intelligent than the rhino is indeed the leopard. I know this because if you change the rhino to the tiger, the tiger then loses some miracle knowledge. Think of it like this:
the amount of miracles cast deems how much miracle knowledge that creature has. lets say for example you cast 120 mega-blasts infront of an ape, it learns it 100%. If transferred via creature changer the amount of times the ape has seen the miracle will be transferred to the new creature (in this case, a tiger) Lets say the tiger needs to see the miracle 240 times to learn it. It will only have seen 120 (because of the transfer), making it only know it 50%.
The same is true with the rhino and leopard. lets say the rhino needs to see the miracle 250 times to learn it and the leopard needs to see it 270 times. I have changed the leopard to the rhino via the creature changer, so i have tested this theory. If you change the leopard for the rhino, the 270 surpasses the rhino's 250, making the rhino maintain its knowledge.  However if you change the rhino for the leopard, the rhino's 250 will not meet the leopard's required amount of casts (270), so the new creature will have lost some knowledge. Having changed the leopard to the rhino, i know that the new rhino loses no knowledge, making the leopard less or equally intelligent as the rhino. A slightly complicated theory.
I stumbled across this while trying to replicate the processes taken by the creature changer to change creatures. Although irrelivent to the topic, if you open the .erc (mind) file with a hexadecimal editor and change the fifth digit to the one that corresponds to the creature you are swapping to, it will work. Dont ask me how i found this out, it was very complicated 
Anyway, thats it 

 

[U-77]

Yes, i believe that unprovoked auto-healing is a totally random ocurrance, given that the creature knows how to cast it.

You hit the nail dead-on :yes
The action of healing themselves while fighting, is left to their own volition (in a word: random).
But to carry out such action they first must be aware that they can do it.
What I'd like to understand is _how_ to give 'em such awareness.

That's the part I believe is not random at all.
Some specific teaching must be required (although "teaching" may be a bad term).
If it was random that too, then all of the B&W1 creatures posted on this website should auto-heal sooner or later.
Matter of numbers: fight long enough -> eventually you must decide to auto-heal.
Yet they never do it.
So that cannot be a case.

I don't believe the players who uploaded those creatures were all incompetents.
No. Rather I believe none of them did teach that X thing (whatever it is) to their creature.
And so their pets never learned they can auto-heal.

I'm going in circles now

---===ooo0ooo===---

As for the creature's stats I posted, the list was taken long ago.
They were LH official values given to fansites and magazines.
It is very possible those values were never accurate, or maybe they changed with the patches =/
Or it is possible that the process of (in-game) creature swapping is not as accurate as it should be.
Whatever, I posted numbers. Treat them as such. Numbers
If your personal experience contraddicts them, do believe your experience.



I'll keep investigating the auto-heal and how to teach it.
If anyone has something to add, please do. I'm all ears.


Ciao ciao : )

 

[Sylvan]

^^ Well, all I have to add, when you do find out! Share it!

I myself have never noticed my creature 'gained' health randomly.

however, I did notice a certain glitch during certain fights, that if the enemy god casts heal (computer god only) my creature sometimes gets healed aswell. Probably because the computer god does not cast heal very often, Lionhead didn't care much about the bug.

 

[Okapidragon]

I think this is a glitch, as Sleg I has autohealed on me in the past. (Incidentally, you're all wrong. The ogre is the dumbest.)

 

[U-77]

Hello,

Auto-heal, glitch, bug, unintended behavior...
However we call it, the extra health from it is very concrete

My Tiger is not the best fighter out there.
Yet I saw him win many a fight you'd have thought lost already.

Ciao ciao : )

 

[Okapidragon]

If the NPC ogre can autoheal, then it probably can't be taught and is rather random. Your tiger could have just been lucky.
I hate to be a killjoy, but that was my point.

 

[Sweet Tooth]

If the NPC ogre can autoheal, then it probably can't be taught and is rather random. Your tiger could have just been lucky.
I hate to be a killjoy, but that was my point.

Thats odd, for some reason when ever I had an ogre it would never leash and just behave on its own, I could never teach it anything, someone is lying or its just me  :upside.

 

[Sier]

This has happened with a lot of my creatures(I've trained over 100, BTW, for testing), and I've also seen the AI do it quite a few times. Sometimes the creature knew heal, sometimes it didn't. Some of the creatures were newborns, most were 7+. So there goes your theory that they have to be over 70.

My theory is that this is a glitch that occurs when the game "forgets" how much "HP" the target has left, or miscalculates, so it simply refills the bar.
An example of some other mathematical glitch I thought of could lead to it trying to take the bar down from, say, 45%, to "+276173263827682764327642%" out of a glitch, so it just refills. The glitch could also be that it reads "-25%" as "+25%" and heals instead of damages. Or, when the creature isn't being damaged, it could be reading "0%(no change in status)" as "+372842378237287%"  as well. Something like that.

*looks up* Heh, I'm tired. If it doesn't make sense, I hope the main point at least got through.  :shocked

 

[Sylvan]

Makes sence to me, because if it's a bug, it's most likely got to do with certain values not being migitated corectly.

Tobad though.. this means it can't be trained, or summoned on will, without using a trainer or cheats.

 

[U-77]

This has happened with a lot of my creatures

Any chance I can get at least one of them, so I experiment with her Mind and try a few things?

and I've also seen the AI do it quite a few times.

I've kept a close eye on all the fights of my creatures (I'm a perfectionist, and I hate it when they lose), and not once I saw a CCC auto-heal (except when it was my Tiger's Mind to embody a Neutral "godless" creature).

Some of the creatures were newborns, most were 7+. So there goes your theory that they have to be over 70.

I agree on that. Also, I've altered my creature mind so she's 250 years old now, and she has yet to show any auto-heal.

My theory is that this is a glitch that occurs when the game "forgets" how much "HP" the target has left, or miscalculates, so it simply refills the bar.
An example of some other mathematical glitch I thought of could lead to it trying to take the bar down from, say, 45%, to "+276173263827682764327642%" out of a glitch, so it just refills. The glitch could also be that it reads "-25%" as "+25%" and heals instead of damages. Or, when the creature isn't being damaged, it could be reading "0%(no change in status)" as "+372842378237287%"  as well. Something like that.

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense.
There is no such thing as "forget". The HP is well known all the time to the AI, or you have to explain me how is it that a fight ends when a creature is beaten to 0% HP left.
If it could forget -as you theorize- you should see at least one fight that does not end when it is supposed to (with a KO, that is).

(I've trained over 100, BTW, for testing)

Do you remember the training you followed with them?


Thanks a lot.

Ciao ciao : )

 

[Okapidragon]

Erm, the ogre deal was the AI in the first land, not my creature, hence NPC (Non-Player Character). This replies to both the last post and the post in reply to mine by Miles.

Interesting thing happened today: I haven't fought with my star creature, Bjorn the bear, in a while, and I did the final battle today. When my creature healed itself, the enemy creature would appear to be hit, and its health would back down a bit, but mine would glow from the heal... and lose equal health. Rather the opposite of the auto-heal, and it happened pretty consistently. Thought I might throw that out there, just as an oddity.

 

[Sier]

Any chance I can get at least one of them, so I experiment with her Mind and try a few things?

I've never posted any files of the sort, so you'll have to tell me what you need. Perhaps in PM.

I've kept a close eye on all the fights of my creatures (I'm a perfectionist, and I hate it when they lose), and not once I saw a CCC auto-heal (except when it was my Tiger's Mind to embody a Neutral "godless" creature).

I almost always watch my fights, as well. It's more about testing the game than being a perfectionist, for me.

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense.
There is no such thing as "forget". The HP is well known all the time to the AI, or you have to explain me how is it that a fight ends when a creature is beaten to 0% HP left.

By "forget" I don't mean literally. It is called a glitch. It is also possible that the game only calculates the HP when your creature gets hit, block, heals, attacks, moves, etc. Any of these could be factors, or none of them could be. If there were a way to know we could speculate further. As it is, it seems to me that it doesn't keep track of the hp at a constant rate, only when it needs to. The creature beaing beaten when it reaches 0% would be an example of it NOT glitching.

Also, did you read the second glitch type I described? The creature reaching 0% has nothing to do with that type. That type could occur at any trigger point.

Do you remember the training you followed with them?

As I said, I've trained over 100. Each one was trained differently. There are only a handful of creatures that I paid special attention to, but I probably couldn't tell you much about them, either.