A Foray Into Evil Territory.

havoc

havoc

New member
Elder
Joined
Jul 9, 2006
Messages
234
Hey all, s'me again, as some of the oldbies here may remember, i was a rather pro evil god, with an almost-600-year-old evil leopard, fully trained to use megablast and megablast increase on all who displeased me, whilst still being nice and dancing with my villagers BUT, its been nearly three years, and i've gotten rather rusty.

Now, i havent gotten rusty on being evil myself, no, no, no, im still fully capable of doing despicable, evil, and down right vile things, my temple is already spikier than a porcupine on my new game after four days, no, this is about my lil turtle.

after only four days, i've crammed the following miracles into his little head:

Water 100% (obviously for putting himself out if in flames)

Food and Wood 100% (for impressing purposes)

Heal & increase 100% (Do i need to explain?)

Winged Creatures - 100% (because bats flying out of his hands is freaking awesome)

Lightining & Lightning increase both 100% (For killin of course)

Fireball Basic to Extreme all 100% (The better to burn you with my pretties)

Storm basic to Extreme all 100% (cause the tornado = instant creature kills)

and megablast basic is already at 55% without any cheap locking him in his pen and making him sit there for hours trying to blast his way out tricks, or switching to a more intellegent creature to make him automatically gain % just alot of rinsing and repeating cause i currently got alotta free time on my hands.

the problem is, after getting him to flame, blast, tornado, and smash roughly 25 skirmish towns.. and eating villagers whenever he gets hungry enough his Evil has barely increased and is at roughly -0.11.

Anybody got any ideas what could work better than this or if my game might be bugged?

For those of you who doubt my former evil creature Credentials:

angryoldhavoc.jpg


would be great if i could get some feedback.




 
I think the creature has to do things on its own to get the full evil impact.

Also, I am an evil god with good creature.  :)  My leopard is 200-years-old.
 
That, and he'll never, at least in my experience, become evil unless he's on the leash of aggression 100%
of the time.  Beware! this is from a goody two shoes guy and have never had an evil creature except for my  Gorilla maybe. 
:devil  :devil  :devil
 
Well, thats pretty much the case, im just leashing him with the agression leash to these town centres, and letting him do his thing till he needs a nap, lol, hes not full sized yet though, so, the slow evil gain may or may not be attributed to the fact that he cant do more than 10 destructive miracles at a time, because his height is about 40% at the moment, lol
 
Did your Leopard (Havoc) become evil faster?  :upside  ???
If so, I have a somewhat weird hypothesis.  :shocked
 
Yes actually, though, i have heard each creature has natural tendancies toward one alignment, and the turtles is supposedly good, that, or, hes just doing good stuff when im NOT looking.    :D
 
Yes, that was pretty much what I was going to say.   :laugh2
There was some map based on skirmish map, two gods, and there was this little Turtle who was 100% evil by the time I had destroyed the enemy's temple.
Except the turtle started out about as evil as Orin (a creature you race with on CI) who was at least -50% alignment.
Anyway, my point is that turtle became evil extremely fast on his own with no leash whatsoever.  
I have noticed that the Wolf (one of my favorite creatures) becomes good so fast that once I saw his skin shift and move and turn purple. :shocked It was quite freaky really.  :suspect
You could try two things that I know of.
One, is if you are on land one you could switch for a Leopard or Gorilla and once he becomes evil/vile enough you could switch back to a Turtle or if you are stubborn about creatures like me,  :laugh2  you could switch your Turtle's mind with Havoc's.
Or do you want a brand new creature mind?
I heard that if your creature fought a creature with a certain alignment his alignment would change for the opposite.
For instance if a creature fought a good creature he would become somewhat evil.  
So, you might want a to fight some good creatures.   :devil vs :angel
Except I don't know of any fight maps with that purpose.
Oh, this is going to sound like a dumb question, but do you stroke him after he does something bad?  :laugh2  
"AppleApe"
 
Well, i do stroke him for doing evil things to other villages, and, if well populated i dont object to him snacking on MY villagers at all, just, i dont want him utterly destroying my villages, for obvious reasons.

I have started making progress though, hes at about -38% evil now, but its slow going.

However, i have taught him megablast to 100% finally, so, that should speed things up, secondly, the act of simply destroying another gods temple for me might give it quite a large bump, he hasnt done that yet, so, i'll give it a go on a skirmish some time.

Well, i am indeed stubborn with my creatures, each one is like a pet, a child of mine in a way, and thats why i like Bw1 your creature almost IS actually like a pet so, its why i dont wanna switch him out after makin him a turtle, and, Havoc is my greatest yet, but, this new one, "Gradius" i named him, i want to be unique.

Also Havoc is kinda at the point that.. well "Cant teach an old dog new tricks" almost applies though, i am very proud of him, because, as you may know, i like uncontrolled creature fights, and, hes good at those, believe me.

On the Evil V. Good creature fight note, once he gets big enough i will have him spar with Tegenstien from Kilroys and confirm if it does or doesnt work for ya.

"If you leave him in a role for too long he will become more like a machine than a pet" too late for that goodie.. too late for that.. what a dissapointment Bw2 creatures were.

                                   
 
The best place I can think of for your creature to destroy enemy temple would be World Wonders.
Best thing about this map is that there is a temple with no occupation.
Except it owns/has some villages that are out of your influence.
Sounds like a job for Gradius!  :laugh2
He could continually pound the temple until all of the villages are destroyed.
And he wouldn't be bothered with the enemy god or creature.  :woot
How did you teach Gradius "Mega Blast" so fast?
For me, I have to show it to him several times before he'll get it 1%.
I have yet to teach my creatures to fight on their own.
But, my Wolf, Tiger & Lion are my best fighters.
I think Tegenstien is neutral, so by fighting him it might not make him any more evil unless he's on the leash of aggression the whole time. 
Do you mean how tall he is or well, how fat he is?
Cuz Tegenstien will be just as tall.
 
Just jumping in to say that my Sheep is 100% Angelic - BUT - he also knows all the destructive miracles to extreme including Megablast, and how to fight on his own, and he's won a ton of creature fights and everything else (he's around 250 years old). He does use the "evil" miracles quite often too, but his alignment never changes.

It might be that he simply uses more "nice" miracles more often (in fact, I'm certain he does) but even when I was teaching him all the extreme versions of Fireball/Storm/Lightning/etc, his alignment never changed.

I think this is quite interesting, actually. I might have to experiment with this.
 
AppleApe said:
How did you teach Gradius "Mega Blast" so fast?
For me, I have to show it to him several times before he'll get it 1%.
Click to expand...

well, its pretty much all about relative intellegence of said creature, the tortoise is the third smartest in the whole game, an ape would go even faster, Chimp the fastest, but, to balance the game, the most intellegent creatures are rather weak physically by comparison to the dumber ones, and the turtle has low reaction time, where as Leopard has the fastest so, in an uncontrolled fight, Havoc would beat the stuffing out of a full grown Gradius any day of the week.

you may see him attempting to cast what you just showed him go ahead and let him, he will probably fail, but, the simple act of letting him do this can accelerate the learning process ever so slightly.

Check my Site for Relative stats on most all creatures Croc Chicken and Chimp excluded

http://havocs__divide.webs.com/creaturestats.htm     

 
Black Curtains:
Yes, both my Tiger & Lion know destructive miracles.
My Lion knows Lightning and Fire Ball.  Mega Blast is at about 2% or 3%.
My Tiger has, with my help, won 35 fights!  :grin2 
And both creatures are angelic.  :angel
havoc:
The said creature would be panthera leo or Mugatus, a Lion.  :laugh2
One thing I might try is a Chicken only because he is surprisingly smart.
And how many round about times did you have to show Gradius the Mega Blast miracle?
Oh, nice site!  :yourock:
How is Gradius progressing down the dark path?  :laugh2   
 
Ah lions are fairly balanced, though ugly as sin when evil...

I'd say ... i probably had to show him anywhere between 250-300 times, as it took roughly 2 or 3 showings for every 1%

This is the reason im not too pleased with the prospect of teaching another critter MB increase and Extreme, coupled with the fact that they pretty much have to be within the danger zone to be able to start learning those, making it a big pain in the arse.

Also, hes at roughly -50% right now, though, it seems that no matter what i do, signs are pointing to that he wants to be a good boy, so, i might just let him in the long run.

And thanks heh.
 
Lions sure are weird when they are evil!
I just had to see what you meant. So, I took my Lion (Mugatus) to Kilroys and casted a creature aggression miracle on him.
The result:
 
My Leopard knows only basic Fireball and Lightening. It flames its poo if it is far from buildings (though I have difficulty getting it to poo away from the buildings more than a quarter of the time), thereby cleaning, and otherwise it's just for creature battles. Knows all the peaceful miracles, though. And it's 100% good. :D
 
yeh, im gonna get him to -100% evil, then let him work his way to good, wont have to tolerate a rainbow turtle cause im usin sazars spirit turtle skin, so, gonna be lightbrown-grey mix with some golden markings, can just put him on the leash of agression when i want him to be bad.

The reason for this is, it seems theres no comfortable medium with him, unlike havoc, he doesnt seem to want to be evil only to villages that arent mine, he wants to be either all evil or all good, lmao.
Down to the point that if i punish him for being too nice, he'll actually flame my village in spite! would be hilarious if it wasnt fireball extreme. that kills alot of villagers lol

Ampersand said:
I imagine that's the point.
Click to expand...

Well, alot of the evil ones look bloody awesome, Evil Croc, Evil turtle, evil Leopard n Tiger, Rhino as well, but some of the evil ones are just plain ugly/stupid lookin lol.
 
Ah, yes, the spite reaction. The best thing forr it is to distract him with the leash then reward him for what you make him do.

I find intelligent creatures more volatile and less habitual, and when they get one idea they tend to stick with it at leas until they get another, while the dumber creatures (rhino, tiger and leopard) not only are faster and stronger (more durable and stronger in rhino's case), they tend to be easier to train, if more time-consuming.
 
Ah, yes, its rather like comparing a dog to a person, Intellegence vs Obedience kind of thing, it really makes you marvel at how much thought Peter and his team really put into BW1, but, i guess thats why it made it into the Guinness book of world records for AI.

That and gets a 9.5-10 of 10 on every single Review its ever had, simply because no other game has combined so many formerly incompatible concepts into one well polished game.
 
havoc said:
Guinness book of work records
Click to expand...
"And on the Twenty-Seventh of February in 1987, Johan Frederickson of Frankfurt stapled 6087--Yes, 6087--Identical paper forms." Ah, work records.

Dogs are intelligent and people are disobedient? Bad metaphor. It's like comparing intelligence and obedience in cats and dogs. Cats are decidedly more intelligent (many species and breeds even showing human-like societal habits), but you can't teach them because they consider you inferiour. Dogs are usually kind of silly and dumb, or aggressive and dumb, but they are easy to teach and get along with.
 
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