IF you was to make black and white 3?

Exit2008

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Mar 21, 2011
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If you were to make the next blacks and white how will you do it?
focus on the creture?
boost the epic?
make it a mmorts?
reintroduce the belief system?
 
Black & White: Remastered.


Because the only good thing about B&W2 was the graphics.  :laugh2
 
I would see if I could restore the 'quirky' pet of BW1 ! ^^ obviously new graphics, I mean, sure.. bw2 looked nice, but it lacked the 'fun zoom' (the worm in the apple on the crate next to the storehouse in your village near your temple on your land).

I would also bring back some of the miracles.. or restore others to their previous state. Heal in BW2 is much weaker.. - abide, one could use it to heal all warriors in an army if as strong in bw1.. but still!

In bw2 one did not feel like a god, more like a general that was also an architect.


In finishing note, I would not have the game focus on any one part - more so on 'everything' - and allowing all ways to reach the end. This gives more then one way to play, for instance, a god ignoring his creature, and more listening to his followers. OR the oposite, one focusing more on the creature then on the followers.

Same applies to good or evil obviously. A god can either build in town, or not do so - And the people will build themselves what they want.. eventually... It'll make the town believe less in the god though.
 
While I would agree with having multiple ways to win the game, there is a minefield to be avoided in that.

For whichever method you choose, there should be a conscious action within that method to meet the win condition and not just win by accident.

Allow me to give an example.  I won B&W2 by city building.  Whether I liked it or not, I won a land once my cities reached a certain level of development and impressed other cities.  What if I wanted to just stop and enjoy developing the land I was on?  Sure, I could hold off clicking on the next scroll to the next land, but what if I wanted to keep the status quo on my terms?

B&W1 had this issue also, but it wasn't so pronounced.  You usually had to make the bigger effort in order to "win" as opposed to just playing the game and winning by accident.  It wasn't necessarily a bad mechanic, but I felt that victories in B&W1 were more rewarding as I made conscious decisions to achieve them.  To that end, that is why I believe so many people prefer the old belief system to the militaristic one of B&W2.

On the other side of things, I'd also like my quirky B&W1 creature back too.  But again with a caveat.

We all look at B&W1 through rose-tinted glasses, but the B&W1 creature was buggy in some infuriating/charming ways.  And here's where the development magic needs to come in.  While we want a creature with what appears to be his own mind, we need a way manage him (as opposed to out-and-out control him).  That way, he can still be his own trouble maker while still relieving some of the frustration we had in B&W1.

Another example of this was all my creatures seemed to get this violent reaction about the birds/bats circling my temple when I reached a certain alignment.  No matter what I did, I couldn't stop him from getting all fire and brimstone on my temple to get them birds.  The best I could do was distract him.

Now, if I could train every bad behaviour perfectly out of him with minimal fuss, then we're back at having a B&W2 creature (no thanks).  On the other hand, if nothing is done to alleviate these problems, we've got the same bugs from B&W1.

Like a true customer, I don't know exactly what I want.  I just know what I don't want :yes .
 
This may seem insane to a lot of people on here. But I actually liked Black and White 2 more than the original Black and White game. I love how they added Epic Miracles into Black and White 2, I love how you can make paths and I absolutely adore God Build (Although I sometimes get my slaves to build for me while I command my armies  :devil ). Oh! One thing I did forget was about houses. There was next to no variety on what style of houses you could have on the original BnW game, but on BnW 2 there is so much more variety in ALL of the buildings you have.

One thing I can say I have missed from the original BnW are the silver scrolls, they had a lot more interesting things to do but as you got further into the game their novelty faded away as the developers began to concentrate more on making the Islands more difficult as a whole. As for the creature, I actually like what they've done with it, I prefer to buy what they can learn with Tribute, not because I'm lazy, but because it doesn't matter what creature you have it can still be trained easily.

In Black and White 3 I would CERTAINLY bring back Multiplayer, I would make it huge and add a lot more islands and the power to become allies with people (Not controlling the same tribe but instead you get to have your own tribe at the same time as having an alliance with the other. However I would only allow ONE alliance at a time otherwise it could ruin the game). It would also have to be a different tribe each, no player would be allowed the same tribe. I would also bring back Skirmish, but you get to pick what god you are. Speaking of picking things, I would make it so that you could pick the colour of your influence ring, this may not bother a lot of people but it can be quite annoying when the developers pick colours that you don't like.

I would also make it so that you can pick your own tribe, out of a selection obviously, which would mean limiting the choice to 3 possible tribal types so that it doesn't overdo it. I would still keep my game based around the time of BnW2.
 
I would only change a few things: Lower the graphics to the point of BW1, but fix as many errors in it as I can.

Then, I would kill the miracle and worship system, and add a temple, with the original worship system. It also gives a better attachment to the creature if you personally train it.

I would try to make the creature more clever in a way that if you pay only enough attention to be a regular jerk to him and he's not an idiot like the BW1 tiger (come on, he's like the dumbest of them all) they'd try to dodge the punishment. Not dodge the slaps, of course, but do it while you're not looking, etc. The creature was an essential part of BW1, not so much in BW2, and I liked it better in BW1.
 
The preferred type of creature training was always divisive.  But a thought occurs to me.

Remember Sable in B&W1?  She took care of the creatures before you picked one.  So what if you asked her to hang on and do the boring training stuff for you.  You could choose what wanted her to train your creature in much the same way as the tribute menu in B&W2 just bought the skill.  So for people not too bothered about training their creature, then they don't have to bother so much.

For those of us who want a connection to the creature, we tell Sable (or whoever) to take a hike and we'll train the creature ourselves in the style of B&W1 (although with some of those AI bugs fixed please).
 
fenton,

That is a pretty good idea actually. Sable can return.... as an old lady  :D And then train your creature for you. Very good idea my friend :)
 
I been known to have them from time to time :p .

It wouldn't necessarily have to be Sable, but I just used her to help get my point across.
 
fenton_pat said:
It wouldn't necessarily have to be Sable, but I just used her to help get my point across.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if "B&W 3" did take place after B&W 2, then to be alive she would have to be immortal.
Or perhaps Sable has a grandchild?
Or maybe it would be nice to create a creature guide-like creature
(altho this one would have a different story)?
Perhaps Tyke? But a chicken.....a BIG chicken!  :laugh2
 
If i was to create a black and white 3 I would do a few things.

The first thing would be to merge features from black and white 1 into black and white 2 then expand on features and improve them in some way. I found black and white 2 a good game but there was features which they changed or took out which I really liked. below is the different features I would include and how they would be compared to how they were implemented in black and white 1 and 2.

I will start with creature training.
Creature training and the creature in general plays a significant part in the black and white series. In black and white one creature training was tricky. you had to catch your creature doing something in order to train them weather it is good or bad. You had to be constantly be watching over the creature to make sure he was doing right. there was also no indication on what you were teaching him, sometimes you taught him the wrong thing without knowing.  Despite all the slapping I gave my creature I still felt like he had a lot of free will and I was teaching good from bad and not just programming him. In black and white 2 I felt the latter was the case. Once the creature had done an action once you could tell him if it was good or bad at any time. This made me feel like i had a robot that looked like a cow.

what i would do is have it so when the creature does an action it would appear in the menu bar like B&W2 but not allow the player to click it and instantly change it. Instead i would have the menu there so you can track the progress of how the creature thinks of those things in terms of good and evil. I would implement a walking leash and a 'Creature Carer' like sable. You could select what actions you want the creature to know as good and which ones you want him to know as bad in the toolbar menu. The walking leash would be used to let the 'Creature Carer' walk you creature and slightly train you creature in certain actions, only if he does them. the Carer wouldn't have half as much affect as you would at training you creature and i would have it be able to break free from the leash at times.

this means attention would have to be given to the creature like on black and white 1 but would have the tracking like in BW2. It wouldn't be like it was in black and white 2 where the creature would never do that action after you taught it but rather it would asses the situation deciding it would be a bad thing to do but always having the slight possibility of doing it depending on its alignment. how some actions are taught shoud also affect others for example: if you teach a creature to not throw a villager then it would also think twice about dropping a rock on their head as that would also harm a villager.

Second thing is miracles.
I would bring back the wide range of miracles black and white one had. I would bring back village specific miracles but have it slightly different. i think a good idea would be to have the spells have a teaching system other then that of the creature in BW1. A village can know how to worship for one type of spell and teach other villages how to worship for it too. once you use a spell you can take it with you to another land but would need to teach the new village how to worship it through the use of people worshipping at a temple and not the alter. i would also make it so you had to learn it in a way. for example: when you just lean the food spell you use it and it gives 100 food. over time this could increase as you experience with it increases. They could also have some negative affect when you first use them like lightning hitting you own people but over time you gain the skill to miss then and only get the enemy.

Epic miracles i would make so they have more of a lasting effect. instead of a volcano disappearing after 5 minutes i would make it so it stays permanently but could possibly go dormant. this would make the player think a bit more about where they use the spell and how.

I liked the variety of buildings in BW2 but they were two easy to build. I would bring back the work shop so you had to create a scaffold. this would work by you place the building as you would in BW2 but these would only be the foundations, you would then need to go and place a scaffold over it. The tribute system was good but i wanted a different way to obtain different buildings. i would add an architects office. It would need to be built to obtain more buildings and to build advanced buildings. You would gain tribute in the same way and spend it but then it would need to be 'designed' before you could build it. the more disciple architects you have the faster they design it.

For the military i would keep it the same but make it harder to take towns as i found that aspect to be too easy.

I would like to go into more detail about different features like the temple and different cultures like in BW1 but im short on time. might add to this post at a later date or post a continuation
 
Sounds good.

I like the expansion of the creature training idea.  That way, you have to invest time without your creature to get a better one back, so while he's in training, you have to manage your villages more yourself.

I also like the village teaching principle you mentioned.  That's an idea I haven't heard of before.
 
Those are some great ideas, Hotec! 

I really like your creature training system; being able to see how you just changed your creature's mind when you slap or pet him takes a good deal of guesswork out of the training.

Towns really were to easy to take over with armies... If there will be a BW3, that'll definitely need fixing.
 
Re master the engine-get rid of the creature-keep the same city building concept-make the island bigger and have religion play a bigger part-have prophets-a rulling class-different families that could become the royals of your city-more races-actual religions and more buildings
 
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